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USFREESTAR

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Member Since: 6/2009

Palin attorney Thomas Van Flein on Saturday warned legal action may be taken against bloggers and publications that reprint what he calls fraudulent claims.

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"To the extent several websites, most notably liberal Alaska blogger Shannyn Moore, are now claiming as 'fact' that Governor Palin resigned because she is 'under federal investigation' for embezzlement or other criminal wrongdoing, we will be exploring legal options this week to address such defamation," Van Flein said in a statement. "This is to provide notice to Ms. Moore, and those who re-publish the defamation, such as Huffington Post, MSNBC, the New York Times and The Washington Post, that the Palins will not allow them to propagate defamatory material without answering to this in a court of law."

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{"commentId":8029554,"authorDomain":"usfreestar"}

Typically, the elements of a cause of action for defamation include:

  1. A false and defamatory statement concerning another;
  2. The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party (that is, somebody other than the person defamed by the statement);
  3. If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and
  4. Damage to the plaintiff.

So do you think the Defamation, Libel, and Slander Law, if pursued here on Vine would become a problem for the authors and posters as well? Maybe even for MSNBC? Many of the threads and posts about Sarah Palin presented, alone here today have been vicious attacks not only on her as a politician, but on her as a fellow human being:

unintelligent, stupid, moronic, bimbo, naive, uneducated, narcissist, a no brain, unethical, crook, corrupt, traitor, insane, delusional, slutty, racist, cow, witch, idiot, ding bat

and MANY more derogatory terms I will not repeat here.

The law works even for politicians - personal attacks are not a free for all...

{"commentId":8029554,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 8:32 PM EDT
{"commentId":8032750,"authorDomain":"frostyone"}

well said usfreestar. as for persuing slander, defamation, of libel action based only on the names she is called won't get very far since she is a public person. on the other hand if she can prove damages from statements made about her then that is a hourse of a different color all together.

{"commentId":8032750,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"frostyone"}
  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 2:14 AM EDT
{"commentId":8032875,"authorDomain":"watersportgirl"}

Good grief. When will this woman stop using the media to complain that people are talking not-nice about her?

If she wants to claim defamation, then most of her candidate speeches would certainly count as such!

Shall we start the tally, Ms. Palin?

Ker-ching!

{"commentId":8032875,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"watersportgirl"}
  • 7 votes
#1.2 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 2:31 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":8029774,"authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}

Libel requires a number of components to be present in order for the case to be viable in court, including knowingly portraying a false statement to be true (as opposed to presenting a speculative statement worthy of further investigation). Calling somebody "stupid" is NOT libelous.

{"commentId":8029774,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 8:55 PM EDT
{"commentId":8029851,"authorDomain":"usfreestar"}

??

Please read #1 above includingthe link. And now tell me that what I read in posts alone today is not covered by the slander law. Because what else do you think slander is??

In the context of defamation law, a statement is "published" when it is made to the third party. That term does not mean that the statement has to be in print.

Damages are typically to the reputation of the plaintiff, but depending upon the laws of the jurisdiction it may be enough to establish mental anguish.

Most jurisdictions also recognize "per se" defamation, where the allegations are presumed to cause damage to the plaintiff. Typically, the following may consititute defamation per se:

  • Attacks on a person's professional character or standing;
  • Allegations that an unmarried person is unchaste;
  • Allegations that a person is infected with a sexually transmitted disease;
  • Allegations that the person has committed a crime of moral turpitude;

{"commentId":8029851,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 9:05 PM EDT
{"commentId":8033316,"authorDomain":"kelvins273"}

But let's look at some other parts of the linked article:

A defense recognized in most jurisdictions is "opinion". If the person makes a statement of opinion as opposed to fact, the statement may not support a cause of action for defamation. Whether a statement is viewed as an expression of fact or opinion can depend upon context - that is, whether or not the person making the statement would be perceived by the community as being in a position to know whether or not it is true. If your employer calls you a pathological liar, it is far less likely to be regarded as opinion than if such a statement is made by somebody you just met. Some jurisdictions have eliminated the distinction between fact and opinion, and instead hold that any statement that suggests a factual basis can support a cause of action for defamation.

A defense similar to opinion is "fair comment on a matter of public interest". If the mayor of a town is involved in a corruption scandal, expressing the opinion that you believe the allegations are true is not likely to support a cause of action for defamation.

A defendant may also attempt to illustrate that the plaintiff had a poor reputation in the community, in order to diminish any claim for damages resulting from the defamatory statements.

I'm pretty sure most of those terms you used as examples would probably be defended as one of these three. The variations on "crook" could be taken as either opinion or "fair statement on a matter of public interest." The various "bimbo" insults may be defended on the third ground; after the Katie Couric interview, it can be argued that Palin had a reputation for stupidity that could hardly be worsened by some anonymous person on the Internet calling her a bimbo. Given that U.S. courts tend to give libel defendants a lot of benefit of the doubt, I'd say the only complaints that would have a chance would have to do with the more sexualized statements (e.g., slutty). All that said, I'm not a lawyer, so my opinion means little in this matter.

Just out of curiosity, usfreestar, do you think Sonia Sotomayor has a cause of action against Newsviners who have called her stupid in one form or another?

{"commentId":8033316,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"kelvins273"}
  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 4:09 AM EDT
{"commentId":8035047,"authorDomain":"usfreestar"}

Sotomayor? I don't know.

But defamation of character is a pretty broad definition, and most of the "Vinery" I hear is certainly defamation-worthy. I don't think any one, Palin the least, will pursue it. But I still think it's immature and unhelpful to any debate to call our politicians names to the degree Palin has been.

{"commentId":8035047,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
  • 1 vote
#2.3 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 10:14 AM EDT
{"commentId":8035426,"authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}

"But I still think it's immature and unhelpful to any debate to call our politicians names"

This from the party that continues to refer to Obama as The Messiah (along with elitist, fascist, Marxist, socialist, un-American, treasonous, foreign-born, the anti-Christ...shall I go on....?

Palin led the charge in the anti-Obama hate-mongering during the 2008 campaign. What goes around, comes around. (Or as Bible-thumping Palin would put it, "Do unto others...")

{"commentId":8035426,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
  • 4 votes
#2.4 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
{"commentId":8039564,"authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
Palin led the charge in the anti-Obama hate-mongering

Interesting. How?

{"commentId":8039564,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
  • 1 vote
#2.5 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 3:21 PM EDT
{"commentId":8044234,"authorDomain":"kelvins273"}

I will agree that I prefer substantive argument to empty name-calling.

{"commentId":8044234,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"kelvins273"}
    #2.6 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 8:29 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":8030510,"authorDomain":"geejay"}

    Yet Palin spent all of last autumn making derogatory and untrue remarks about Obama--palin' around with terrorists, that he is anti-American and so on.

    Sorry, Palin's attorney, but your girl cannot expect to not get what she gave.

    {"commentId":8030510,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"geejay"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#3 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 10:09 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8030568,"authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
    derogatory and untrue remarks

    documentation please.

    You are right, Obama's attorney! If any substance according to the

    Defamation, Libel and Slander Law

    we should have her prosecuted along with any members of the Vine community who are guilty of the same!

    {"commentId":8030568,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
    • 2 votes
    #3.1 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 10:15 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8032764,"authorDomain":"frostyone"}

    TheJonesGirl, the comments she made about Obama palin' around with terrorists is entirely true. William Ayres is a friend of Obama and is an admitted terriorist.

    {"commentId":8032764,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"frostyone"}
    • 1 vote
    #3.2 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 2:17 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":8031028,"authorDomain":"jewel-one"}

    Here she comes, just like she said she would "for those bloggers". Oh my, head for the exits.

    {"commentId":8031028,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"jewel-one"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 11:05 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8032701,"authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}

    So Palin's lawyer claims that she will sue all of the blogs for libel for discussing plausible allegations of misconduct about a controversial political figure? Good luck with that.

    We're all quaking in our boots. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    {"commentId":8032701,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
    • 3 votes
    #4.1 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 2:06 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":8031263,"authorDomain":"americanspirit"}

    Only an idiot would threaten journalists for exercising their First Amendment right on the Fourth of July.

    {"commentId":8031263,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"americanspirit"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#5 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 11:30 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8035381,"authorDomain":"redaly"}

    ... and Sara Palin is an idiot, in my humble opinion!

    {"commentId":8035381,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"redaly"}
    • 2 votes
    #5.1 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 10:42 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8040645,"authorDomain":"frostyone"}

    REDaly, so I guess you have at least met the woman to come to that conclusion?

    {"commentId":8040645,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"frostyone"}
    • 1 vote
    #5.2 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 4:32 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8040966,"authorDomain":"americanspirit"}

    The only action required to come to that conclusion was for Palin to talk unscripted out loud.

    {"commentId":8040966,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"americanspirit"}
    • 3 votes
    #5.3 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8041598,"authorDomain":"frostyone"}

    actually the only time that i've ever seen her have a problem speaking was when the McCain handlers stopped her from saying what she wanted to.

    {"commentId":8041598,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"frostyone"}
    • 1 vote
    #5.4 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 5:30 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8042035,"authorDomain":"usfreestar"}

    Obama on the other hand, now he's a good speaker!

    But that's about it...

    {"commentId":8042035,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"usfreestar"}
    • 1 vote
    #5.5 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 5:59 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8045329,"authorDomain":"frostyone"}

    I can't say that he is a good speaker until he can speak without relying on a prompter. Heck Clinton can talk circles around this guy with no promter in sight.

    {"commentId":8045329,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"frostyone"}
    • 1 vote
    #5.6 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 9:59 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":8031426,"authorDomain":"VerbalBarb"}

    I think it's amazing that someone got an attorney to jump on this thing so fast, and on a Saturday that's a national holiday, too.

    {"commentId":8031426,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"VerbalBarb"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#6 - Sat Jul 4, 2009 11:47 PM EDT
    {"commentId":8032582,"authorDomain":"An-uncommon-scold"}

    Slander and libel laws are different for public figures. It's very hard for a public figure to win such a case.

    In matters of libel, public figures are not as other mortals, according to the U.S. Supreme Court. In a series of cases since 1964, the court has ruled that a public figure cannot collect libel damages without proving that "actual malice" was involved in the publishing of inaccurate and defamatory material. Actual malice, said the court, means publishing with knowledge that a statement is false or with "reckless disregard" of whether it is false or not.

    If the bloggers wrote as an opinion or as a matter of public interest, it becomes almost impossible to win.

    A defense recognized in most jurisdictions is "opinion". If the person makes a statement of opinion as opposed to fact, the statement may not support a cause of action for defamation. Whether a statement is viewed as an expression of fact or opinion can depend upon context - that is, whether or not the person making the statement would be perceived by the community as being in a position to know whether or not it is true. If your employer calls you a pathological liar, it is far less likely to be regarded as opinion than if such a statement is made by somebody you just met. Some jurisdictions have eliminated the distinction between fact and opinion, and instead hold that any statement that suggests a factual basis can support a cause of action for defamation.

    A defense similar to opinion is "fair comment on a matter of public interest". If the mayor of a town is involved in a corruption scandal, expressing the opinion that you believe the allegations are true is not likely to support a cause of action for defamation.

    So it's possible there will be a lot of huffing and puffing, but it is not likely to blow the house down.

    {"commentId":8032582,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"An-uncommon-scold"}
    • 6 votes
    Reply#7 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 1:49 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8032725,"authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}

    Finally, a voice of reason.

    No surprise that Palin does not understand the nuances of defamation law. She still thinks that the First Amendment is designed to protect her right of free speech (as an elected government official) without being criticized or condemned by the media. Ass-backwards as usual.

    {"commentId":8032725,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"ScienceGuy"}
    • 5 votes
    #7.1 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 2:10 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":8033339,"authorDomain":"kelvins273"}

    Let's look at another interesting quote from usfreestar's link in #1:

    The publicity that results from a defamation lawsuit can create a greater audience for the false statements than they previously enjoyed. For example, if a newspaper or news show picks up the story of the lawsuit, false accusations that were previously known to only a small number of people may suddenly become known to the entire community, nation, or even to the world. As the media is much more apt to cover a lawsuit than to cover its ultimate resolution, the net effect may be that large numbers of people hear the false allegations, but never learn how the litigation was resolved.

    So how many people had heard of the specific allegations the Palin camp is complaining about? I hadn't (though it's possible I would have read a seed on Newsvine about it). This may be a case of Palin shooting herself in the foot by publiciziing obscure allegations.

    {"commentId":8033339,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"kelvins273"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#8 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 4:17 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8033455,"authorDomain":"ronco104"}

    i want palin brought up on charges of impersonating a governor...and maybe an intelligent person...and how about impersonating a grown-up...and don't forget a mother...and a ....

    luv,

    ron

    {"commentId":8033455,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"ronco104"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#9 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 4:57 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8035694,"authorDomain":"redaly"}

    I wonder if any politician has ever been able to win such a suit, or if any have ever been stupid enough to even file one. Let's ask the librarian in Wasilla. I hear she can tell us plenty about Sarah's understanding of the First Amendment too!

    {"commentId":8035694,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"redaly"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#10 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 11:08 AM EDT
    {"commentId":8035871,"authorDomain":"An-uncommon-scold"}

    The goal is probably to scare people who know things out of talking about them. Kind of like thugs breaking up a shop to warn the owner not to mention he saw the thugs murder someone in the street.

    Palin hasn't got the money to pay an expensive attorney to handle a libel suit where the chances of winning are nil. The Alaskan blogger merely repeated old rumors and said they were rumors and speculation. Now that Palin has threatened to sue her, the rumors and speculation are spread ten fold because everyone she threatened to sue are reporting that she threatened to sue and what the rumors are. Brilliant strategy.

    {"commentId":8035871,"threadId":"619468","contentId":"2997785","authorDomain":"An-uncommon-scold"}
    • 3 votes
    Reply#11 - Sun Jul 5, 2009 11:22 AM EDT
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